WMD and terrorist connection rolled into one
 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110372,00.html

well well well

let's see how long it takes before some moron says it was planted by those imperialistic US troops.

wmd???????? :rofl2:
you have to be kidding........... right?????

oh you're right, a poisonous substance in the hands of terrorists that have already tried the "poison the water supply" trick once before is no big deal :RE:

ya spans right, just imagine if they got 100s, no 1000s to lick that deadly salt lick, the death it would cause, o woe wit me.




streaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaach

7 whole pounds :RE: of a (at this time) non specified cyanide salt.... come on span you have to admit that it hardly qualifies as a WMD?

Oh wait..... that is unless you happen to be a rodent or an insect ;)

your inability to see possible dangers just because of ideological hatred of Bush or his agenda is pretty telling as to why you dolts got kicked out of the White House and then out of Congress.

You can easily buy far larger amounts of deadly chemicals at Walmart without arousing any suspicions, and, so far, domestic terrorists have proven to be quite effective. Just because it's an exotic substance... it just makes a better, sexier news story.

:rofl:

your inability to compose a coherent sentence just because of your ideological hatred of anyone who disagrees with you is pretty telling as to why you dolts got kicked out of Underground forum:BL:

f=cking rat poison. span you've reached a new low. congratulations.

- js.

'Ramzi Yousef, one of the convicted 1993 World Trade Center masterminds, told federal agents that he would have used sodium cyanide if he had the money because he wanted to create a deadly gas cloud that would rise into the office towers and kill everyone. Ahmed Ressam, the al Qaeda terrorist convicted in the Los Angeles International Airport millennium bombing plot, testified recently that he had been trained in an Afghanistan camp on how to kill people with cyanide. Here's a partial transcript from his testimony last summer against a fellow conspirator:

Question: "You practiced these techniques on the dogs so that later on in one of your operations you would be able to perform such techniques on human beings, is that correct?"

Ressam: "Yes. We wanted to know what is the effect of the gas, yes."

Question: "Some of your potential targets while you were in the camp were American citizens, is that correct?"

Ressam: "In regard to targets in general, yes. Yes, we were speaking about America as an enemy of Islam."

Question: "[O]ne of the examples was to put the cyanide right near the air intake of a building such as a government building, correct?"

Ressam: "Yes, that's right."

Question: "And the reason that you would put the cyanide, you were trained, near the air intake would be to kill the most amount of people without endangering yourself and without being detected, correct?"

Ressam: "Yes, that's how gas is used in killing."

Ressam also described how terrorist coaches instructed al Qaeda campers on how to mix cyanide and other toxic chemicals into an oily paste to smear on door handles so that those who touched them would be killed by toxins coursing through their blood. This method, Ressam confirmed, was to be used "against intelligence officers and other VIPs."

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/m...20020529.shtml



sad that you think it's funny. and..i suppose the fact that the cyanide salt brick was found in iraq, at the safe house of zarqawi, reduces you to uncontrollable giggles. obviously, you're as un-informed about sodium cyanide as you are about who zarqawi is.

are you ever going to debate in an intelligent rational way? your quote below glaringly shows what cheap tactics you'll stoop to instead....

you guys are truly out of your minds if you believe seven pounds of cyanide’s a wmd. we had a chemical spill here a year ago. a truck carrying seven thousand pounds of sodium cyanide was hit from behind and ruptured, spilling some of its contents on the busy six lane freeway. thousands of motorists passed by it. traffic was eventually diverted until the spill was cleared but not before it entered a river. the place was crawling with epa, cops, firemen and public officials, most of whom were dressed in street clothes. i was there. the mayor was there. it was windy, we worried about rain. as a precaution we evacuated some nearby residences. when it was over no one had died, no one was injured. and this was tons of the stuff...had it been a real wmd, like smallpox, or anthrax or irradiated tumor treatment needles from discarded hospital equipment the outcome might have been disastrous. the stuff isn't harmless but sodium cyanide is no wmd. door handles for christ sake? this fox article is proof the bush apologists left reason and logic in the same black hole their ultimate leader left his honesty.

- js.

ah proof you didn't even bother to read the article because it just states facts told to them, you know like reporters are supposed to do.

i don't think you fully read both articles. if you had, you wouldn't be zeroing in on a truck spill and door handles.

are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of coupling high explosives with chemical agents?

terrorists aren't.

Just a few of the things that 'bother' me in the article:

a) 7 lbs ?? - just what was that going to accomplish?

b) It refers to 'cyanide salts' which, although it seems people have been quick to assume, does not automatically translate to sodium cyanide. It could be any one of a number of the cyanide salts, which vary in properties.

c) The frequent use of the word 'believe'
.......located in what was BELIEVED to be the safe house of Abu Musab Zarqawi ......
....Zarqawi, BELIEVED to have been operating in Iraq......
.....Zarqawi is BELIEVED to have begun establishing terror cells....
.......also BELIEVE he had been attempting to produce large quantities of the toxin ricin in northern Iraq.....


All in all the article would appear to be fairly low in cold hard facts and rather high in sensationalism and inferences.

Just more empty clap trap to try to save face over the WMD hoax.
It amazes me that thinking adults can swallow this stuff whole.

All cyanide salts share a common property: They are dangerously toxic.

Any of the cyanide salts liberate hydrogen cyanide gas when exposed to a strong acid. This is the mechanism behind gas chamber executions.

Since a concentration of 300 parts per million of hydrogen cyanide in air is fatal to humans within a few minutes, 7 pounds of a cyanide salt could be used to create a very dangerous cyanide gas weapon. A concentration of 56,000 parts per million or more of hydrogen cyanide in air is explosive. Chemical weapons using cyanide are considered to be WMD, whether or not we have an agreement between us of this status.

Besides entering the body by inhalation or ingestion, cyanides can also be absorbed through the skin.

In the U.S., Department of Transportation regulations require reporting a quantity of any of the cyanides over 10 pounds. This is mainly for hazardous materials spill response issues. It should be obvious that a 10 pound container of a cyanide salt will NOT be 30% "safer" if three pounds (30%) of material were removed from the container (leaving 7 pounds remaining in the container).

Arsenic, not cyanide is the material of choice in industrial strength rodentcides. A few gas generating products using cyanide have been manufactured for use against burrowing rodents, like gophers. Compounds that are toxic to rodents and less toxic to other creatures are now widely used in place of arsenic in rodentcides.

Cyanides have a number of legitimate uses, particularly in electroplating and metallurgy. However, if 7 pounds of a cyanide salt was found in the possession of a known terrorist - it's probably reasonable to presume it's intended use was not for a rodentcide or any other legitimate industrial purpose.

I suppose that ricin they found in the Senate isn't a WMD either, since only a small quantity was found. Ricin is a lot more toxic than cyanide. Less than one tenth of one milligram can cause death. One molecule of ricin can destroy a human body cell.

Ricin would be easy and inexpensive to make. Given its potency and low cost, ricin would be very attractive for terrorist activities.

Ricin is derived from the beans of the castor plant. A person with undergraduate chemistry knowledge could extract and concentrate the ricin from the plant.

Please note that none of the facts presented above change with respect to which political party the U.S. President happens to belong to.

Oh yeah, 7 lbs of rat poison in Iraq is definitely worth spending a trillion dollars and killing untold numbers of people over, because as we know, no terrorist who might use it here could possibly be smart enough to utilize the millions of pounds of it lying around ...here.

Any reports on the number of nail files, cigarette lighters and mousetraps found in Iraq yet?

This thread wins the Ramona A Stone Lamest I-Told-You-So Award of All Time, and I hope the recipients get some sleep soon.

:zzz:

Oh no i've disappointed the boards resident pseudo-intellectual again

woe is me

You mean the kind of "psuedo-intellectual" who would post FOX NEWS articles with a postscript postulating that people would have to claim it was "planted" in order to illuminate the sheer absurdity of it being presented as some kind of "evidence"? That's funny.

Sorry you disappointed yourself, but you lived up to my expectations brilliantly.

The fact that people will dig this deeply to construct a rationale for going to war is really just too revealing of the fact that they don't have a single clue in spite of all their prewar cheerleading, and it's fraught with an especially sad futility when their own Brave Leader is currently admitting as much in a numb-nutted last ditch effort to look like a well-intentioned dumb fuck who couldn't interpret his own "intelligence."

I suppose this mad scramble for some scrap of justification will continue as long as there is breath in you, but I'm surprised you're not more heavily into the "let's pretend we were misled" campaign, it's all the rage... but then again, perhaps it overestimates the level of intellectual sophistication of the sheep for which it's intended.

I suggest if you want to stay on the moral high ground that you should keep digging for more gay pedophile material, it seems to really sell.

:S:

awww did i touch a nerve in the little smarty man in training?

don't worry, i don't need WMD's to help me justify this war, Saddam's breaking of the '91 cease fire before the ink was dry on it was all the justification i needed. Thankfully we finally got someone with balls in charge to call him on it.

clap monkey clap!

a shining example of the extent of a liberals articulate debating skills.

regarding zarqawi.....
 

U.S. Aides Report Evidence Tying Al Qaeda to Attacks

By DOUGLAS JEHL



WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian suspected of ties to Al Qaeda, is now thought likely to have played a role in at least three major car-bomb attacks in Iraq that have killed well over 100 people in the last six months, according to senior American officials.

Intelligence information, including some gathered in recent weeks, has provided "mounting evidence" to suggest that Mr. Zarqawi was involved in the bombings, including the attacks in August on a Shiite mosque in Najaf and the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad, and the attack in November on an Italian police headquarters.

One official cautioned that the evidence stopped short of firm proof about involvement by Mr. Zarqawi. But the official said the intelligence had added significantly to concern about Mr. Zarqawi, who one official said was now "really viewed as the most adept terrorist operative in Iraq, in terms of foreigners planning terrorist activities."

The indication that Mr. Zarqawi played a role in the attacks adds evidence that he has been active in Iraq since the American invasion in March. An American official said Mr. Zarqawi had been "in and out" of Iraq since March, but "at last report" was operating inside Iraq. One of Mr. Zarqawi's top lieutenants, Hassan Ghul, a Pakistani, was arrested by Americans near the Iranian border last month, and has been interrogated by American military and intelligence officials.

The American officials who described Mr. Zarqawi's suspected role would do so only on condition of anonymity, and they declined to discuss the nature of the information pointing to a role by Mr. Zarqawi in the bombings. But the officials included some who have been skeptical in the past of the idea that foreign militants were playing a major role in the violence in Iraq.

"The fact that we got Hassan Ghul is new intelligence information," one senior American official said. "The fact that Zarqawi is a bad guy is something we've been saying for a long time, but we're learning more about him."

In a raid on a safe house in Baghdad on Jan. 23, American officials found an electronic copy of a document believed to have been written by Mr. Zarqawi. That document was a detailed proposal asking senior leaders of Al Qaeda for help in waging a "sectarian war" against Shiites in Iraq in the next six months. Parts of it were made available to The New York Times.

The writer of that document indicated that he had directed about 25 suicide bombings inside Iraq, "some of them against Shiites and their leaders, the Americans and their military, and the police, the military and the coalition forces." A senior United States intelligence official in Washington said Sunday that he knew of "no reason to believe the letter is bogus in any way."

In the period before the war, Bush administration officials argued that Mr. Zarqawi constituted the main link between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. At the United Nations in February, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell accused Iraq of harboring "a deadly terrorist network" headed by Mr. Zarqawi, whom he called "an associate and collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda lieutenants."

At that time, Mr. Zarqawi was believed by American officials to be in the mountains near Iran with Ansar al-Islam, a group linked to Al Qaeda that is suspected of mounting attacks against Americans in Iraq. But little evidence has emerged to support the allegation of a prewar Qaeda connection in Iraq, and Mr. Powell conceded last month that the United States had found no "smoking gun" linking Mr. Hussein's government with Al Qaeda.

The largest of the three attacks that American officials now say may be linked to Mr. Zarqawi was the Aug. 29 explosion outside a mosque in Najaf, a city holy to Shiite Muslims, which killed more than 85 people, including Ayatollah Muhammad Baqr al-Hakim, one of Iraq's most important Shiite leaders.

The raid on the safe house in Baghdad used by associates of Mr. Zarqawi was said by one American official to have provided valuable new evidence. The items seized included a compact disc that contained the 17-page proposal to senior leaders of Al Qaeda as well as a seven-pound block of cyanide salt, which the officials said could have spread cyanide gas within an enclosed area.

"It's likely that he was involved in at least the three bombings," an American official said of Mr. Zarqawi. The car bomb attacks were three of the most deadly in Iraq since the American invasion last March. Besides the Najaf attack, they included the Aug. 19 bombing of the United Nations headquarters, which killed 23 people, including Sergio Vieira de Mello, the top United Nations envoy in Iraq; and the Nov. 12 attack on the headquarters of Italy's paramilitary police in Nasiriya, which killed more than 30 people, including 19 Italians.

Last fall, American military, intelligence and law enforcement officials said they did not know whether the August bombings were part of a coordinated campaign. At the time, they said they were wrestling with several competing theories about who might be behind them, including the possibility that they were carried out by former members of the Iraqi military or paramilitary forces.

Investigators said at the time that they had not seen a common signature in the bombings, but that the attack at the United Nations headquarters and another on the Jordanian Embassy had used vehicles packed with explosives drawn from old Iraqi military stocks. American officials have not said publicly what kinds of explosives were used in the attacks in Najaf and Nasiriya.

On Monday, senior American officials were careful to describe Mr. Zarqawi as "an associate" of Al Qaeda rather than a member. American military officials say that at least 90 percent of the attacks on United States troops are thought to have been carried out by Iraqi Sunnis opposed to the occupation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/10/po...partner=GOOGLE

Hmm, lets see....

I take one 7-pound block of cyanide salt and place it in the outflow from the local water treatment plant, assuming the thing will mix with water and flow down the pipe to poison a small town. Perhaps not a lot of people will get sick enough to die, but some children sure might. Think of the wonderfull panic it would cause those infidels!

Or

Take that block of poison and mix some of it in with the mashed potatoes served in a school lunch, or senior center, or some food served at a dinner put on by a fire company fundraser.

The purpose of terrorsim is not mass death, which is possible with that seven pounds, properly used, but TERROR.

How many have to die to call it mass murder? Is fifty ok?

Or perhaps more, say one hundred fifty... Kids.

Your kids.

I say one death due to a terrorise is too many, and any pontential weapon, any that we remove from their hands is a good move.


I make no distinction on where a terrorist comes from. They are all the same regardless of motive.

And it could be anyone, me or you who suffers

Just because Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was in Iraq doesnt mean that he was working with Saddam, and its even more of a stretch to say (or even prove) that Saddam knew he was in the country.

Why jump to the conclusion that Saddam and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi were working together? Thats just plain retarded!. At the very best we have "a Jordanian suspected of ties to Al Qaeda" in custody, and until more FACTS are available, its stupid to believe anything more than that.

Coalition Releases Letter Meant for al Qaeda

By John D. Banusiewicz
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Feb. 11, 2004 – Saying it illustrates a calculated effort by foreign terrorists to derail democracy in Iraq, coalition and Iraqi officials in Baghdad today released a 17-page letter intended for al Qaeda leaders that a courier was carrying when he was captured last month.

Officials have described and characterized the letter in previous news briefings this week, but released a transcript in Arabic and a key-point English translation to reporters at today's briefing.

Analysts have determined that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian believed to be behind various terrorist acts in Iraq, wrote the letter to seek help from al Qaeda's top leadership in stirring up violence among Iraq's ethnic groups. This way, they say, he hoped to quash the country's progress toward stability and democratic self-government.

The coalition today doubled to $10 million the bounty it will pay for information leading to Zarqawi's death or capture.

Dan Senor, senior spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority, said the letter lays out a plan for provoking civil war in Iraq. It warned al Qaeda leaders that foreign fighters will lose their pretext for waging terror in Iraq if the Iraqi people take effective control of their country.

Senor said the letter also provides a blueprint for how the terror strategy will fail. "It is very clear it will fail if we continue to ramp up the number of Iraqis serving in security services," he said. "It is very clear that the terror strategy will fail if America continues to show (the) resolve the coalition has demonstrated over the past 10 months. And the terror strategy will fail if we hand over sovereignty to the Iraqi people on June 30, as outlined in the Nov. 15 political agreement."

The fact that the Zarqawi letter specifically references that time frame, Senor continued, underscores that elements associated with al Qaeda feel threatened by the prospect of a sovereign, democratic Iraq.

An "encouraging detail" in the letter, Senor said, is Zarqawi's frustration at his inability to find many Iraqi sympathizers, who he wrote are "as rare as red sulphur."

Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy operations director for Combined Joint Task Force 7, said releasing the letter lays out Zarqawi's plans for terror in Iraq for all to see. This, he said, will increase awareness that foreign terrorists are operating in Iraq and will encourage vigilance among the Iraqi people. Furthermore, it will enhance the likelihood that Iraqi citizens will recognize terrorists for what they are and turn them in.

Mohsen Abdul Hamid, current holder of the Iraqi Governing Council's rotating presidency, joined Senor and Kimmitt at the coalition headquarters podium for the briefing. He said the Iraqi people have a message for the terrorists who in the past two days have targeted Iraqi army and police recruits with car bombs, killing 100 people.

"Let there be no doubt that we are going ahead with our plans to regain sovereignty and establish democracy," Hamid said. "Our determination to proceed with our plans is undiminished. Our people are united behind us. The (United Nations) and all peace-loving people are also with us, and these acts of cowardice will not succeed."

It's clear what the terrorists are trying to do, and that the Iraqi people won't let it happen, Hamid said.

"Obviously, Zarqawi is betting on Iraqis fighting each other," he said. "But this is not going to happen. We are all one nation."

Hamid cited the September assassination of Shiia cleric Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim as a previous failed attempt to turn Iraqi against Iraqi, perpetrated in the hope that Shiia Iraqis would blame another ethnic group and retaliate. "In fact, the people of Iraq were united when a Shiia leader was assassinated," he said.

Kimmitt said intelligence is the "coin of the realm" for precise operations by coalition military and Iraqi security forces that kill or capture foreign terrorists and remnants of Saddam Hussein's regime. One goal of releasing the Zarqawi letter, he said, is that with the terror plan and the terrorists' sinister intents laid bare, even more information will surface that brings the country closer to security and stability.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2...200402113.html

"There have always been three fundamental concerns. One is weapons of mass destruction, the second is support for terrorism, the third is the criminal treatment of the Iraqi people.

The third one by itself, as I think I said earlier, is a reason to help the Iraqis but it's not a reason to put American kids' lives at risk, certainly not on the scale we did it." - Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz

agreed.

- js.

it's amazing how out of a transcript as long as that interview with wolfowitz....the media, and obviously you, reduce the entire interview down to only those two sentences.

try reading and understanding everything a person says, instead of picking out a couple of sentences that fit your aganeda, then quoting them out of context.

here's what wolfowitz said before and after what you quoted...
full transcript:

http://www.dod.mil/transcripts/2003/...ecdef0223.html

it's a very fair quote from a major advocate/architect of the invasion.

i've read the entire lengthy transcript (which even you haven't bothered to post) and there's nothing in it that contradicts his statement.

he makes it clear; attempting to spare iraqis from a criminal dictator was not reason enough to sacrifice american lives.

what part of that have you failed to grasp?

america would have agreed, had they not been lied to. let's now find out if they weren't given the chance to decide for themselves for that very reason.

- js.

fyi...here are some other fair quotes from paul wolfowitz...

sure you read it! you posted your quotes without any link at all. i had to go find the transcript to post it...which i did, in my last post. how could you read it, if you didn't even see it?


more from paul wolfowitz.....

Wolfowitz Defends Administration's Pre-War Reading of Intelligence

February 9, 2004

Says that Hussein's regime had a lot to hide

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz defends the Bush administration's decision to go to war in Iraq based on the intelligence that was available at the time, rather than on the word of Saddam Hussein, whom he characterizes as "a madman and a proven liar."

During a February 6 interview with San Diego's KOGO news radio, the deputy secretary stated, "You don't have the luxury before the fact of basing your decisions on what you may learn later." He added, "You've got to base it on what you know at the time."

The deputy secretary also pointed out that investigations into Iraq's weapons programs are continuing and could still reveal stashes of chemical and biological weapon materials.

"There could be such stashes still in Iraq. There could be Iraqi weapons moved to Syria or to other countries," he said. "Almost certainly, and I think this is even implied by David Kay, there [was] definitely a capability to go into surge production once Saddam Hussein got rid of the inspectors."

Wolfowitz called attention to the Baath regime's efforts to destroy files during and after the war and stated, "It's a regime that had a lot to hide, I think still is hiding things, and that in those circumstances you don't get the whole truth I don't think should be a surprise."

The deputy secretary highlighted instances in which the intelligence community has produced accurate information, and added, "in most of those cases when the violators have been caught they have made some kind of agreement, more or less grudging, to open up -- Libya is the best case so far, of opening up and apparently being willing to dismantle those programs."

He continued, "In the case of Iraq we had exactly the opposite kind of behavior where Saddam repeatedly lied and frustrated and blocked inspections and I think people have to say what was it that he was hiding?"

http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2004/02-09-2.htm

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY),Oct 10, 2002

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraqis a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger,Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA),Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton's Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of an elicit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI),Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA),Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV),Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA),Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV),Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA),Oct. 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL),Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Good stuff.

Another interesting article:

Playing lost and found in Iraq

Dan Bagley
Cavalier Daily Associate Editor

THERE has been a lot of talk recently about what has not been found in the newly liberated Iraq. Unfortunately, some people are entirely too quick to criticize the president and the actions of this nation and look past what has been found in Iraq. While no vast stockpiles have been found, a commission headed by former weapons inspector David Kay has found a wide range of evidence of weapons of mass destruction programs.

In a preliminary report from October of 2003, Kay states that his investigation has found "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research," (Interim report of Iraqi Survey Group). He continues that specific agents used in the construction of biological and chemical weapons have been found within Iraq. (bold emphasis added)

It is, after all, an election year, and the opponents of the president have been attempting to blast him on this issue as much as possible. Unfortunately, these people have the ability to pick and choose their battles. For example, they specifically chose to ignore David Kay's statement that "what we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than in fact we thought it was even before the war." Coming from the same source that many Democrats cite to criticize the president, this claim should carry significant weight.

Clearly, an intelligence failure has occurred. Statements from the administration, from the domestic intelligence agencies and even foreign governments firmly believed that Iraq possessed large amounts of weapons of mass destruction. What Bush's opponents overlook is that these claims were not only being made by proponents of the war. By the time combat operations began, even the respective intelligence agencies of Germany and France firmly believed that WMD existed within Iraq.

To date, no one has provided any evidence that shows in any capacity that the president or his administration has misled the American people. The old saying goes garbage in, garbage out, and if the intelligence community is forced to analyze an incomplete picture, it is possible that they will make incorrect judgments. The Democrats cannot hold this administration responsible for the intelligence failures for agencies that they have repeatedly cut funding for. Not once has a member of the intelligence community stated that they were pressured by a person in authority above them to make exaggerated claims about Iraq's WMD capabilities. The claims that were made were widely considered to be the truth.

Iraq is roughly the size of California, and a significant stockpile of WMD could be located in something as small as two-car garage. Needless to say, the search for such weapons is not over. The results thus far have been disheartening, but the lack of large stockpiles does not discredit the United States' action to rid this region of a petty, tyrannical, evil dictator.

Clearly, the world is a safer place with the removal of this dictator. Few people are in a position to refute this, and indeed, most of the criticism about this war stems from the lack of WMD caches found. Is it truly necessary for us to find these caches to prove an imminent threat to the United States?

More important than proving an imminent threat, we approach the question: Can we afford to wait for an imminent threat in this day and age? For a threat to be truly imminent, it must be presented to us directly and clearly. In this age of rogue nations, terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, we cannot allow ourselves to wait until we no longer have a shadow of a doubt. The removal of Saddam clearly has improved the safety of this county and the entire world.

The only argument that remains for those who would criticize our president for their own political gain during this election year is the completely false accusation that the president has somehow misled the public regarding this matter. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would challenge these people to find an instance where someone has gone on the record and stated that they were indeed pressured into making a certain conclusion. Experts have pointed out that many of the conclusions on which the war was justified were formed during the Clinton administration. This cannot be construed as an example of creation of false intelligence to rationalize a war. Very credible claims of weapons of mass destruction did not suddenly appear the second Bush took office.

The intelligence failure is regrettable indeed, but the fault is placed firmly on the shoulders of the agencies that made those analyses. No one has misled the public, except for Saddam Hussein himself who has to date been found to have been in breach of U.N. resolutions in hundreds, if not thousands, of cases.

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArtic...18721&pid=1115

Iraqi Citizens Keep Leading U.S. Forces to Weapons and Suspects

American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON, Feb. 27, 2004 -- Iraqi citizens continue to point U.S. troops to sites where weapons and ammunitions are being found – even in some cases hand delivering turn-in of the deadly munitions.

Over the past week there have been at least four incidents where Iraqi civilians have led U.S. troops to hidden stockpiles of weapons and ammunition, coalition officials report.

In Mosul, a concerned group of citizens in northwestern Iraq, known as the Coalition of Iraqi Unity, led soldiers of the 1st Squadron, 14th Cavalry Regiment, Feb. 26 to a large cache of weapons, according to a Central Command release.

The cache contained 39 rocket-propelled-grenade rounds, 10 RPG boosters, three RPG launchers, one RPG sight, two 155 mm artillery rounds, three 82 mm mortar rounds, 256 60 mm mortar rounds, 15 120 mm mortar rounds, one antipersonnel mine, nine blasting caps, 500 7.62 mm rounds, 124 14.5 mm rounds, 360 40 mm rounds and 90 rifle-propelled smoke grenades.

Another concerned Iraqi citizen came to the squadron headquarters in Tall Afar and turned in one RPG launcher, an antiaircraft gun and 200 anti-aircraft gun rounds Feb. 26.

In Tikrit, CENTCOM officials reported that an Iraqi citizen provided information that helped soldiers from 1st Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, capture three suspects along with one RPG launcher, six 82 mm mortar rounds and five ammunition magazines filled with AK-47 ammunition.

Soldiers from the unit raided a building in Sordonia, nine kilometers southwest of Riyadh, Feb. 24 looking for a weapons cache and the persons responsible for storing the weapons.

Another Iraqi citizen provided information to the battalion about a possible weapons and ammunition cache south of Kirkuk, the CENTCOM news release stated. Soldiers went to the location Feb. 24 and discovered one 37 mm anti-aircraft gun and 100 rounds of 37 mm anti-aircraft ammunition. The patrol disabled the weapon with hand grenades and an explosive ordnance disposal team destroyed the ammunition.

Meanwhile, in the past week coalition troops have also continued to find and seize weapons stockpiles throughout the country.

Soldiers from the Task Force 1st Armored Division seized a weapons cache in the Al Rashid district Feb. 24 during a routine patrol. Confiscated were 50 122 mm artillery rounds, 36 125 mm artillery rounds, 200 14.5 mm rounds, 10 fuses and two hand grenades, according to a CENTCOM release.

On the same day, soldiers from the 1st Battalion, 14th Infantry Regiment, discovered an ammunition cache southeast of Kirkuk. The cache consisted of 126 60 mm mortars and 60 82 mm mortar rounds. An explosive ordnance disposal team destroyed the munitions.

Officials reported U.S. Army psychological operations teams moving out into communities of Baghdad to combat fear and misinformation being spread by anti- coalition elements.

Soldiers from the 315th Psychological Operations Unit, San Jose, Calif., part of Task Force 1st Armored Division, are meeting with residents to ensure that the Iraqi people "hear and see the truth" about what is happening in their country, according to a news release from Combined Joint Task Force 7.

The teams are distributing copies of Baghdad Now, a bimonthly newspaper written in Arabic and English by Iraqi journalists. The newspaper contains neighborhood news and events, and information from local military leaders.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2...200402273.html

psyops
 

posted by scoob - "hear and see the truth"

"By the application of sound PSYOP techniques, through face-to-face communication and mass media communications, we have demonstrated , time and time again, that we can appeal to the intelligence, reason, and emotions of our target audience to get them to think and act as we desire."

that profoundly describes the continual drip-feed of the leftist-commie propaganda. glad to see you acknowledge it.


lol, your tin-foil turban is wrapped a ‘lil too tight jack. be careful.. it just focuses those mind-altering psyop beams.

sorry scoob, you smear again. my quote was taken from an official us defense page, defenselink, a co-operative effort of the "Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense-Public Affairs and the Defense Technical Information Center."

you're seriously insulting your own armed services now. my my my.

- js.

hang on to that tin-foil turban js..it's gonna fly off from all that spinning.

the quote you posted was from multi's link: http://www.psywarrior.com/psyhist.html
you posted that in criticism to the article i posted. by that, you show that you're critical of psyop techniques.

but...you only posted half of the quote, the part you wanted to spin. here's the rest of it...

"If these people are shooting at us, we can persuade them to lay down their arms. If they fear us, we can convince them that they have nothing to fear. If they are belligerent and uncooperative, we can show them the value of unity and cooperation. Lastly and most important, the utilization of PSYOP can prevent needless bloodshed, destruction and misery. That is why we say, with conviction, that psychological operations, or PSYOP, is truly a humane weapon."

now, which is it, are you critical of psyop techniques....or not?


spin it jacky!

an iraqi intelligence officer who worked for aq..how could this be? according to the media, there is no connection between iraq and aq!


Iraqi secret policeman 'was paid by al-Qaeda to bomb civilians'

By Inigo Gilmore in Najaf


A former Iraqi intelligence officer captured by police after last week's bombings in Baghdad and Karbala has revealed that he was paid by al-Qa'eda to carry out attacks on civilians.

Mohammed Hanoun Hamoud al-Mozani was detained with two associates on Wednesday, a day after almost 200 people were killed in simultaneous explosions at shrines packed with Shias.

After interrogating al-Mozani for 24 hours, Najaf police revealed that he had given important information on the network behind the attacks in Iraq.

"We think that this is a big breakthrough," said Major Mohammed Dayekh of the Najaf police. "Al-Mozani admitted that he was part of a terrorist cell that answered to a middle-man who works for al-Qa'eda and he gave us the names of the four other men in the cell, two from Baghdad and two from Najaf."

Al-Mozani and his associates were wearing police uniforms when they were seen in Najaf. After a car chase, the three men were caught and taken to the city's police headquarters. On Thursday they were handed over to American troops.

A spokesman for the American military in Baghdad refused to comment on the arrests. The Najaf police team, however, gave a detailed account of how al-Mozani was recruited by an al-Qa'eda envoy while working at his electrical appliance shop in Baghdad.

The middle-man, who went by the name of Abu Utthman, promised him tens of thousands of dollars for each successful mission. He allegedly told al-Mozani that he was a deputy of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist whom the coalition blames for most of the attacks in Iraq.

"Al-Mozani said they were offered between $20,000 (£10,900) and $30,000 (£16,400) to organise terrorist attacks and that they would get bonus money if the attacks led to the death of a large number of people," Major Dayekh said. "He said that he was tempted to work with them because it was such an easy way to make money and that he agreed to do it because he needed the money."

Abu Utthman allegedly told al-Mozani that he operated from the Abu Filas neighbourhood in Khaldiya, 60 miles west of Baghdad. Khaldiya has been a hotbed of resistance to coalition forces and scores of American soldiers have been killed and injured there.

more...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...7/ixworld.html